I don't want to be a failure. I need GreYMisT to believe in me!
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
I don't want to be a failure. I need GreYMisT to believe in me! | ||
Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
I'm not going to go too deep into my past performance since I've always felt it's a waste of time and doesn't really say anything. It doesn't matter what you've done in past games, it matters what you're doing in this game. But, for those who really want it, I'm a decent enough scum-hunter, I'm town, and I hope I'll be able to demonstrate those to you and get elected. I don't have a kill target right now, but if I'm in line to be elected leader, I will let the town know what I'm thinking with some advance notice, so as not to surprise anyone with my choice for the lynch. I'm going to play out Day 1 as normal, and as soon as I develop a decent scum read, I'll let the town know, and we can discuss it. In the end, I'm hoping we can base the game around actual discussion of scum targets instead of the trend I've seen lately of someone making a case, no one commenting on it, and then people just calling others scum with no reasoning to back it up. If you want to lynch someone, I expect you to actually come up with reasons why it's best to do so, and not just blatant sheeping. As well, if you disagree with a lynch, actually speak up. I don't even care if you're wrong, because the point of discussion is to discard the bad or wrong ideas and move forward with the good ones. If I get elected as Leader and so obtain extra votes, on further days I'll just use them to apply additional pressure to who I want to lynch. I don't want you to sheep me just because I got elected to leader. If you agree with my ideas, great, if you don't then that's good for you, but hopefully you actually discuss why you don't, than turn into a brick wall. However, like I said at the beginning of my post, I'd prefer to actually be elected to the position of vice-leader, since I believe that position can be abused much more by scum being elected to it, and has the potential to generate a ton of confusion. I also don't even trust most townies to it, since lots of people will misuse the role and cause as much confusion as if scum had it. The role of vice-leader is much more powerful than leader, and I believe it's the position we should actually be focusing on today. The leader picks the day 1 lynch, which will hopefully be influenced by town, and after that they only have 1 extra vote. The vice-leader on the other hand, has the ability to waste an entire day, cause an extra round of night actions to go through (which is bad for us in most cases), and also generates lots of confusion. If they use their power in an anti-town way, it means we potentially have to spend two extra days just to lynch the vice-leader and the person we were trying to lynch in the first place. This ties up our primary KP for a long time, and we get the additional WIFOM of if the pardoner pardoned his scum buddy or not, and whether the pardoner is actually scum or just a stupid townie. Basically, the pardon ability causes a ton of trouble that we won't want most of the time. As vice-leader, I promise not to use my power in 99% of cases. Basically, the only exception I can come up with off the top of my head would be a MYLO situation where I was going to be lynched as town, and pardoning myself means we don't auto-lose. Outside of a situation like that though, I really don't see a reason where I would ever want, or need, to use the pardon. So, I want to be elected, because I know my own alignment, and can trust myself not to frivolously use the pardon, or use it against the good of the town. I can't trust others to do that, since I can't know you're not scum, and beyond that, even with a town read, lots of people have the capacity to do something silly because they're convinced that it's a good play. However, this normally results in more bad than good, and in the mislynch of the player who did it, which isn't a desirable outcome. I'm planning to play the same regardless of which position you put me in, or if you elect me at all. However, I believe I can use the Leader position effectively, but would prefer to be able to safekeep the position of Vice-leader, to keep it away from not only scum, but also compulsive townies. I'd like it if you vote for me, but you should also consider a second person you would like to be elected along with me, since for whichever role, we still need to have either a vice-leader or leader to go along with it. Now, as for myself, I'm going to vote in a candidate based on who I think is most likely to be town, who I can trust to be the most transparent with what they're thinking, who has the best reads, and who won't go Rambo at the end of Day 1 and cause a huge mess for Day 2. Those four things are the criteria by which I will determine who I support as the other candidate for office. I'll keep you updated with what I think once most of the candidates come out and make their posts and we get past super early game posting. The pardon question has already been asked and answered: On May 27 2012 11:34 GreYMisT wrote: 1. Yes 2. Yes 3. Not telling you who can fire, But the KP can be roleblocked 4. there is full imidiate alignment reveal 5. Ben is a minor character in an episode Also, it's 3 a.m. here, so I'm going to bed now. However, Blazinghand, do you actually think it's the best day 1 play to just lynch someone you think is bad rather than someone you think is scum? Maybe if you had no scum reads by the end of Day 1, but you make it sound like you'll go through with it regardless... | ||
Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
I don't really like the idea of policy lynching a player nearly solely based on past performance, so I won't elect either Blazinghand or Sinensis. I asked Blazinghand if he would lynch Grush rather than someone he thought was scum, and I'm not entirely satisfied with his answer. He said that he's willing to lynch someone other than Grush, but it relies on a bunch of conditions beyond merely thinking Grush is town. From his answer, it reads that even if he has a town read on Grush, he'd lynch him if he doesn't like his play. That sounds like it gives him an extremely convenient cop-out if he gets elected leader, since he can just lynch Grush and come up with any excuse for why he thinks his play would be a detriment to town. I don't agree with that. I don't like VE for mayor right now, since he hasn't really been doing much in the thread since he declared his candidacy, and in general, he plays pretty compulsively, which I think is bad to have for either the mayor or pardoner. I don't trust him to play cooperatively with the rest of town rather than just do what he personally thinks is best, which might not always be the best play. Toad, I don't really get your platform. Basically, you say you'll lynch a scum on Day 1, and the rest of it's some nonsense about how you're impossible to read. But, how does that promise do anything to motivate us to vote you in? The thing about saying you'll lynch scum Day 1 is that we have to vote you in with the hope that you'll do as you promised after already being the mayor. It's not based on what you're going to be doing on Day 1, it's based on what you'll do after you're elected. In your post, you don't even make it clear if you'd give us any heads-up about who you want to lynch or if you'd just pick someone when you get into office. As well, you say that it's an alignment check. But what happens if you mislynch? It's entirely possible. You say that if you do it as scum, you'll say "well everyone is wrong from time to time", but what if you're town? Won't you end up saying the same thing? As it stands, I don't think I'll vote for you. Lastly, Kitaman, I don't think anyone's going to take your suggestion seriously. However, I'm interested, why did you choose Hyaach? What made you want to suggest him as the random mayor? So, right now, I think that voting for myself and EchelonTee is the best choice. If you agree, please give me your votes. I need you to vote for me if you would like to see me in office. | ||
Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On May 28 2012 02:39 kitaman27 wrote: Do you disagree with my assessment or do you just really want to get elected? :p Lyncher is likely to run for mayor. Picking someone who isn't running reduces the odds of electing a lyncher. It doesn't really matter if we elect a lurker or less skilled player as long as they are town. Mayor isn't really a town leader in this setup without the bodyguards. Lies. Foolishness put much more effort in endorsing his candidate. Because he is a newer player and I want to hear more from him. Do you agree that it is more likely that a lyncher will be running for mayor? Lets lynch meeple. I think if there's a lyncher in play, then it makes sense for them to run for mayor if they feel semi-confident in coming out of the election alright. That's also why it's important that we elect someone based on their Day 1 play, and not any future promises, and that we elect someone we believe strongly to be town. I'm not that scared of there being a lyncher since I don't think he'd be able to get enough support to be elected, if we're smart about it. I think anyone who's being lined up to become mayor must provide a case on who they want to lynch before they're elected or else we pull out support for them. This will make it harder for scum and potentially a lyncher since they'll be forced to come up with some fake analysis on Day 1, which is hard to make sound sincere. If we don't like what the mayor is saying at that point, or their analysis is fake and contrived, then we can vote for someone else. On May 28 2012 02:52 jaj22 wrote: I don't think the risks of electing a lyncher outweigh the value of electing a good town player. A lyncher may not even have a town target, and the chance of a genuine mayor contender rolling lyncher is low. @Hyaach: What do you think about Kitaman voting for you? Or anything else, for that matter. @Wiggles: What do you think about strongandbig? He's your main competitor on current form. To the 60% of players who haven't posted at all yet, please do. No need to feel intimidated. I don't get how he's my main competitor since I'm running for both positions, but would just prefer the pardoner since I know I'm town with 100% certainty. Also, most people are just going to vote for a mayor, not a mayor/pardoner, so we're going to end up with two mayoral candidates who have the most votes, and the runner-up is pardoner. On a side-note, is Strongandbig even still running? But, to answer your question, I don't think he's a good candidate. He basically has no platform, and he hasn't done anything to show that he's town. A lot of his posting is just about that thing with BH that has no bearing on the game. As well, he's unclear with what he's saying about how he'll use the power. He says he probably won't use the power, but then a couple sentences later he says he'll use it if he has a strong town-read. That shows that he's willing to just use the power if he doesn't agree with what the majority of town (remember, this is majority lynch) are thinking. I don't want a pardoner who's going to use his power just because he doesn't agree completely with the lynch. He also says he'll try to bring it up early if he wants to use the power, but that doesn't make much sense, since early on, there won't be a majority on someone. Realistically, a clear lynch target will only really appear in the last half of the day. So, overall, I don't think he's a good candidate for pardoner at all. Like I said, I think I'm a good candidate, and out of other people, ET is the best candidate. The office should be made up of myself and ET. On May 28 2012 03:40 Toadesstern wrote: Screw this, don't feel like explaining why I am town, because I don't need to LOL I'm fucking modconfirmed townie. And this is not some Toadi-confirmed this is hands down modconfirmed. I am a Mason and there is no Anti-town role that can produce a mason result according to our OP. I can tell who I wish to mason once n1 has started and once I did that I can talk to the guy. I assume that means talking to him once d2 has started. I can mason ANYONE I WANT meaning I can confirm this and as mentioned there's no mafia or 3rd party role like that. Now you might ask yourself: "But toadi, what if you are mafia and faking this by outing 2 mafias (you and your "masonbuddy", not to mention that that would be completly retarded from a mafia point of view but whatever)? We can't be sure if you really are a mason at all!" I am an awesome mason. The most awesome masons of them all, meaining I can choose a new "target" every night, meaning I can reproduce that confirmation every night if you wish me to. If you believe I am mafia fakeclaiming, fine lynch me if I'm not telling the "truth" d2, I'll flip town and you lynch the guy who said "wait, toad said he masoned me but I did not get a mason-thingy!" afterwards and you get a mafia. If I am town I'm telling the truth and can prove it d2, which means I'm going to be shot n1 again, but I'm counting on that anyways so might as well take a mafia with me and I will. That's it. Vote me pls ❤ Why did you claim like this? My major gripe with what you've said so far, is that it doesn't seem like you're willing to put in the effort on Day 1 to show that you're town. As well, you can't be held accountable for anything you've said until after you get elected. Now you throw in this claim, which also can't be verified until after Day 1. Also, why even claim? Mason is a very strong role, especially in this set-up, because masons are confirmed town to the person they talk to. If you hit a townie with your mason, it would have been great for analysis, and if you hit a blue, then they could instantly role-claim to you and share their actions. That's pretty huge. Instead, you choose to waste the role by claiming on Day 1. Why? Why are you so desperate to get elected as mayor? It's not like a town player is useless after Day 1. At this point, it's starting to look like you're a lyncher or assassin who's going all-in on Day 1 to kill his target with the lynch. | ||
Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On May 28 2012 04:18 Toadesstern wrote: Mostly because I think I'm dead by the end of n1 or n2 anyways. About the accountability: Of course I can't. Noone can be held accountable before they get elected... If I were 3rd party or mafia I'd go for the long game as already pointed out: I don't think people are able to read me when I'm mafia so no need to do something like this, which means I want to be mayor because otherwise I'm dead before people listen to me Based on the player list, why do you think you'd end up dead on Night 1 or 2? There's other players on the list who would be higher on a shooting list for scum, and then add in your insistence that you're hard to read. If you were really that hard to read, then mafia would leave you alive to use as a scape-goat/mislynch on later days, not shoot you on Night 1. What you're saying seems contradictory. On May 28 2012 04:19 Toadesstern wrote: Your claim doesn't do anything to show or prove that you're a townie, though, or at least not until after you're elected, which I've already pointed out is a problem.because a townie wants a townie to be elected | ||
Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On May 28 2012 05:11 Toadesstern wrote: Why is it a problem. You are not acountable before you act either but for you I'm either a townie or a lyncher right now, correct? Let's be honest, worst case I lynch the guy I need to lynch if I am a lyncher and you have the most disruptive guy in the game out of the game because if I really am a lyncher I will be kicking, screaming and punching to get that guy lynched and you have a true-rnd policy lynch because I assume that the target of a lyncher can be both, mafia or town (or 3rd party). So the worst case scenario would be you get rid of a anti-Town guy (that's me if I am a lyncher) because I don't care about lynching mafia at all, you know that mafia is not Mayor because there's no mayor left (that guy is going to die soon anyways without a BG) and you've got a kind-of-policy lynch thingy. That doesn't sound so bad to me. And let's be honest again, I did not realize that a mason would be awesome for the lyncher as well as you pointed out but I'm going to make sure you guys know I'm town within the next 24 hours so give me some time and let me do my job, I will give updates on my reads and explain them. And I don't need some guy to poke me nonstop yelling "toad give update, toad give update NAO" when I said I'm busy today and only started to read the thread an hour ago. Worst case, you lynch the guy you want to lynch, are removed from the game, town probably losing a player based on the proportion of town to scum, and scum get a free round of night actions. So, town ends up losing 4 players and the mayor role for free. How's that not that bad for town? For the people who want to put you as the pardoner, that's just as bad. If a lyncher/assassin gets put into the role of pardoner, then expect scum to try to bribe them when one of them is about to get lynched. Something along the lines of "Pardon my lynch, and my team will shoot your target", or something like that. Again, we lose a whole cycle to the pardon, and then we're left with either a lyncher we either need to suffer through spamming in thread, or we lose a day of discussion lynching him. A pardoner lyncher can also at any point hold the lynch hostage unless we kill his target, again leading to a round of free kills. Also, you never answered my question about why you were scared of dying on Night 1 or 2. The player list suggests you're not the highest priority target for scum, and your own insistence of being hard to read suggests scum would leave you alive as you'd be a magnet for suspicion. Finally, I find it odd that you're trying to downplay the impact of a Lyncher/Assassin being elected rather than denying that you're one of those roles and trying to show otherwise. | ||
Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On May 28 2012 05:44 Toadesstern wrote: I am trying to show otherwise but that needs time and I can't come up with an awesome lynch out of nowhere so from my point of view I either ignore you or talk about things I can already talk about in the meantime. Do you want me to ignore you instead? I can do that as well. About why I think I'm going to be shot early on: I got shot n1 last time and I claimed mason this time. I think that makes me a high priority. You said you claimed because you were scared of dying early on and wanted to get the mayor role. Now you're saying you're going to die early on because you claimed and that's why you're scared. You don't make sense, or you're changing your story around. + Show Spoiler + On May 28 2012 04:18 Toadesstern wrote: Mostly because I think I'm dead by the end of n1 or n2 anyways. About the accountability: Of course I can't. Noone can be held accountable before they get elected... If I were 3rd party or mafia I'd go for the long game as already pointed out: I don't think people are able to read me when I'm mafia so no need to do something like this, which means I want to be mayor because otherwise I'm dead before people listen to me This is where I ask why you claimed, and you say it's because you think you're dead anyways. So, now you're saying that you claimed because you think you're going to die, and you think you're going to die because you claimed. That's textbook circular reasoning. I'm pretty convinced that you're actually the lyncher now, because your story isn't adding up to me. It would be a bad move to vote you in. On May 28 2012 08:19 phagga wrote: Not through the complete thread yet, will catch up later. I'm against a policy lynch, as I think everyone should get the chance to improve. I don't like how Toadesstern claimed, and feel against voting him therefore. He is either throwing away his blue role or fakeclaiming to get the major. Both is bad. I like Mr. Wiggles reasoning, he looks like a good candidate. The other interesting option is ET, but I will have to read through his filter again to feel more sure. Mr. Wiggles and ET, do you already have some candidates for your lynch? Off the top of my head, I wanted to say Toad, but I don't think he's actually the best choice for the lynch today unless I can't come up with any other scum candidates. I think he's probably a lyncher, but that also means he's not a threat if we keep him away from the elected positions. He claimed mason, so he should be able to confirm that role tomorrow. So, so long as he isn't elected to the pardoner or mayor, I'm willing to keep him alive to see if he confirms his role on Day 2. If he can't confirm himself, a vig should shoot him. As for today, no one should be giving him any votes if they think there's a possibility of him being a third party. I've already explained why it's bad for town for a third party to be elected as pardoner. So far, I've been pretty focused on Toad, so I need to go back and read other people more closely to find a better lynch. As well, there's a ton of people who've barely posted, and I'm sure there's scum among them. Vigs at least should consider all the lurkers as potential targets for when they shoot, if they don't start to change their activity and attitudes. On May 28 2012 09:07 strongandbig wrote: So you want me to tell you why I'm town? Well, hopefully my play so far has shown that I'm town. I'm trying to be clear with what my thoughts are on the election. I'm explaining my views on both the mayor and pardoner, and backing it up with reasoning. I'm also pressuring a player I find suspicious. I'm taking a firm stance for a certain candidate, and against several others. Hopefully from my posting, it's clear who else I support to be elected along with myself, and why. I still stand by that choice. 1. I am not running for mayor. In case that wasn't obvious from my earlier post "don't vote for people who haven't made a case for mayor but only for pardoner". I haven't said anything like "vote for me" since I realized that the runner up for mayor gets the pardoner rather than it being a separate election. 2. Sinensis are you still running for mayor? Do you still want to policy lynch grush? I'm pretty sure BH still does but idk about you. 3. MrWiggles, you've said a lot about pardoner but this is an election for mayor. Also, how do we know if you're town? Obviously the "I'm town" paradigm posted by the subject of suspicion should always be treated with several grains of salt, but it can still be useful to townies making up their minds so I'd like it if you could post one. Overall, I'm hoping that my posts show that I am being transparent and open about my thoughts.I hope they show that I am actually putting effort into this game. Finally, I hope they show that I am taking a measured and reasonable approach to the game, in order to foster a good environment for scumhunting and discussion. As always, if you agree with what I'm saying and think I'd be a good candidate for leader/vice-leader, you should vote for me. I also support ET being elected into office along with myself. | ||
Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
Basically, I have two people in mind for who I think should be candidates for the lynch tomorrow. They are Sinensis and strongandbig. The starting point I took for my two reads is that I believe it's very likely that scum would have at least one person run for mayor/pardoner, if not more. So, I decided to focus most of my attention on the people who declared they wanted to be elected. From that pool, both Sinensis and strongandbig stick out to me, here's why: Sinensis: Sinensis opens up by saying that he's running under a platform of lynching Grush. As the game has progressed, he's continued to support this position, and that's pretty much all he's done. Even with people telling him that lynching Grush isn't the best choice, and that Grush's play isn't about to destroy the town, he's still touting that we should lynch him. I find this scummy, because his position provides zero accountability for his actions. Sinensis wouldn't consider himself accountable if he were to lynch grush and he flips town, because the reasons for the lynch aren't part of this game. They're based on events that happened outside the game. As well, tunneling grush like he is provides him with an outlet to make posts that look like they're contributing, but actually don't do anything useful and provide no new content. Sinensis can continue to tunnel grush without repercussions, and he doesn't even have to provide reasons for grush being scum, since his reasons for wanting to lynch him aren't based on his play in this game. This is evidenced by the complete lack of reasoning for why we should lynch grush besides just repeating the same thing over and over. Additionally, it doesn't look like sinensis is willing to let up, because when asked if he would lynch someone else, he says "find me a confirmed mafia and I will happily support their lynch instead of grush's". The thing is, we're rarely going to ever find a "confirmed" scum, so sinensis is just setting himself up to continue to tunnel grush. Even in the face of a reasonable scum candidate, sinensis is telling us that he'd still rather kill grush. This play makes it so that sinensis won't have to contribute at all to the game until grush dies. As well, it makes it so that sinenesis isn't responsible for the outcome of his tunnel. Overall, I find this play to be very scummy. strongandbig: I believe strongandbig is scummy because of how he made a decision to run for pardoner, and then just sort of fell out of the running and didn't even try to continue to gain support after being called out. He comes in and makes a post saying that he wants to be the pardoner. Quickly, BH calls him out on it, and after some back and forth, he drops his candidacy. It seems to me that scum would love to be able to nab the role of pardoner. This is what strongandbig set out to do, but when he was actually called out about running specifically for pardoner and was put under pressure, he was very quick to just drop his candidacy altogether. I think this is a sign of being scum, since it displays that he was very nervous in running. I feel as though a townie in that position wouldn't back off from running so quickly and after so little pressure. Also, his reason for not continuing to run is odd as well. He says it's because there aren't separate elections, but in my eyes, it seems more because he didn't like that he immediately came under scrutiny and was pressured. Even beyond his candidacy, strongandbig's posting has been very safe, and not very relevant to the game or contributory. He hasn't provided us with many original thoughts, and has been very reserved since he got called out by BH. Again, this looks like he's afraid of being in the spotlight or being put under pressure. As for kitaman, I can agree that he doesn't look like the towniest person among us, but I think that personally, I would rather lynch into either strongandbig or sinensis for Day 1. Let me know what you think. Do you agree with my reasoning? Disagree? Speak your mind, and hopefully we can decide on the best person to kill for Day 1. Right now, if elected mayor, I'm planning to kill one of those two. On a sidenote, if you've signed up for the game and haven't posted yet, or only have 1 post, please start actually playing. I'd rather not have the game end because of 9 mod-kills on Day 1. =/ It also makes you incredibly hard to read if you don't have any posts in the thread, since it's impossible to make a read out of nothing. | ||
Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On May 28 2012 17:58 VisceraEyes wrote: Why would SnB, as newish scum, want to call apologize to me, a player who hasn't expressed any kind of problem with his posts or paid him any attention, at the same time as he's apologizing to BH, a player he's gotten into an argument with in the thread? Here's why I ask. As scum, for me, it seems much easier to simply pacify the source of the attention rather than call further attention to myself by apologizing to another player who hasn't even commented on the offending posts. It seems...too careless, you know? I don't think he's a good lynch really. It's true that his content is lacking, but from what I can see he seems genuinely interested in what's best for town. I think he apologized to you because he mentioned you at the same time as BH in this post: + Show Spoiler + On May 27 2012 13:46 strongandbig wrote: 1. Out of the mayoral candidates so far, I like ET. It's hard for me to encapsulate why, but it kind of has to do with the idea of taking things seriously. I feel like BH and VE are hard to read because they troll half the time and spam a lot. That doesn't mean ET is easy to read by any means, but I feel like his posts are more likely to be able to be subjected to ordinary analysis rather than gut reads. (In case it isn't obvious, I think it's important to be able to hold the mayor at least somewhat accountable, and that means you have to be able to analyze their posts in a serious way.) 2. That segues well into why you should vote for me for vice leader! I take things seriously and am easy to subject to analysis. I don't mean "hey I'm always transparent because I suck at scum"; people running for things always say that. What I mean is that when I post I'll do my best to include my reasons and background, and you all can do your best to tear them apart or find corroboration. So, why am I running for vice leader/pardoner? Well, last game I played was my first time being a blue role, and it was really fun; I want to try something new this game as well. Last thing: my platform for vice leader. The vice leader's only power is to nullify a lynch once per game. I'm not gonna say "I'll only use the pardon if town wants me to" because that would be retarded since town voted for the lynch. What I will say is that if I ever use the pardon, I'll announce that I'm considering pardoning the person loooong before the lynch happens and I'll discuss it fully. There's a 90% chance that I won't use the pardon at all during the game, because in general flips on suspicious players tend to be pretty helpful for town. The only case where I use the pardon would be one where I'm very sure of my town read on someone, and where there are at least a few other people who think I'm making sense. So, vote for me! BH reacted very strongly to what he said, so it makes sense to me that he'd want to preemptively apologize to you before you began to draw more attention to him again. You say that apologizing to you as well draws attention to himself before you even commented, but by apologizing all he has to do is make one post, and that's it. If instead he didn't apologize, there's the chance that you decide to comment, and then there will be both yourself and him involved, and he wouldn't be able to solve it so quickly. Apologizing then and drawing a little attention means that he avoids potentially drawing a lot of attention later on. That's how I see it. ET, right now it looks like either yourself or I am going to be the mayor. Who are you planning to lynch if you're elected? Like I said, lynch target/reads is one of the things I'm basing who I'm voting for on. You haven't mentioned what you're thinking though. It would be nice if we have some kind of idea of what you're thinking about the lynch before the deadline. Also, some people have commented on either thinking that sinensis or strongandbig aren't the best lynch for today. However, between the two, who do you think is the better lynch? If you don't think either of them are good lynches, who do you think is? This is your chance to get your thoughts out in the thread and let us know what you think. Also, try to give reasons too, not just a name. | ||
Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On May 29 2012 03:37 strongandbig wrote: I think Mattchew or one of the other older players may be playing scummylurky. I recall ET did that explicitly and on purpose in SS mafia, maybe one of them (someone who recently lost a game as scum by being super active and leadery in the thread until I shot him) is doing that. + Show Spoiler [wiggles on me] + On May 28 2012 17:25 Mr. Wiggles wrote: strongandbig: I believe strongandbig is scummy because of how he made a decision to run for pardoner, and then just sort of fell out of the running and didn't even try to continue to gain support after being called out. He comes in and makes a post saying that he wants to be the pardoner. Quickly, BH calls him out on it, and after some back and forth, he drops his candidacy. It seems to me that scum would love to be able to nab the role of pardoner. This is what strongandbig set out to do, but when he was actually called out about running specifically for pardoner and was put under pressure, he was very quick to just drop his candidacy altogether. I think this is a sign of being scum, since it displays that he was very nervous in running. I feel as though a townie in that position wouldn't back off from running so quickly and after so little pressure. Also, his reason for not continuing to run is odd as well. He says it's because there aren't separate elections, but in my eyes, it seems more because he didn't like that he immediately came under scrutiny and was pressured. Even beyond his candidacy, strongandbig's posting has been very safe, and not very relevant to the game or contributory. He hasn't provided us with many original thoughts, and has been very reserved since he got called out by BH. Again, this looks like he's afraid of being in the spotlight or being put under pressure. 1. I stopped running for pardoner when I realized that it wasn't a separate election from the mayor's election. That's how it worked in the last game I played, and it wasn't specified in the OP. Once I figured out that it was the same election, I stopped running for reasons I've already explained -- I don't want to be mayor. 2. BH's "scrutiny" didn't make any sense at all! 2a: His first point was "why did you run for vice mayor instead of running for mayor, your reasons for running for vice mayor also apply to mayor." I had already answered that point (I don't trust my day1 reads enough to kill someone off). 2b: His second point was "hey first you said you wanted to do something different because blue roles are fun and then later you said that you want to keep pardoner power away from scum what gives those are different." I didn't mention keeping pardoner power away from scum because I thought it would be obvious; if a power is useful for scum and not for town then town should try to keep it away from scum. 3: IDK what you mean when you say I was "called out for running specifically for pardoner" - that's exactly what I was doing, it's not like I was trying to hide it or anything. I thought there were separate elections since it didn't say in the OP that the runner-up becomes the vice leader, I had to look through greymist's filter to figure that out. Basically, my point is that I wasn't trying to avoid scrutiny or the spotlight. There really just wasn't much worth responding to. Also after BH and ET blew up the thread over my poorly chosen comments about BH, I didn't want to drag the thread down any more. Think about this - if I was scum, by not posting I gave up a golden opportunity to get just as emotional as BH was and keep the thread fucked up for at least several more pages. What I mean by the called out comment is that BH called you out for running for pardoner, and instead of really defending your candidacy, you just dropped it. It looks suspicious to me, because it looks like you decided to stop running at the first sign of pressure, and just used the voting mechanics as an excuse. What do you think of sinensis? On May 29 2012 04:11 VisceraEyes wrote: Like, I get it...you don't want anyone besmirching your claim with false information or whatever the fuck...but imagine this scenario. Imagine you HADN'T broadcast that you're not roleblockable and scum have a roleblocker. What possible town motivation could you have for sharing the fact that you're not roleblockable with everyone? Hell, even people in PMs, why isn't that your most closely guarded secret? Wiggles, I'd like you to seriously SERIOUSLY consider lynching Toadesstern today...at the very least tell me what you think of the guy as completely and honestly as possible. I'm going to do the same right now. Right now, I'm convinced that Toad is a lyncher/assassin. I stated it in my earlier post where someone asked me who I would lynch. However, that also makes it so that he isn't a very good lynch candidate unless we're completely lacking anyone else to lynch. The thing about Toad's claim (especially now that he claims he can't be RBed), is that he'll either be able to prove it tomorrow, or we'll kill him. There's no reason to lynch him now, because he can show us if he's telling the truth tomorrow. Lynching him now only seems like it would be a good idea if we didn't have anyone else to lynch, but at this point it looks like we have several viable candidates. If he's not town (and I think he's third party), there's no way he can weasel his way out of proving that he's a mason. So, it makes the most sense to just let him live through the night. Lynching the lyncher (ha!) is pretty suboptimal compared to lynching mafia if we can. As well, if someone confirms that he masoned them, we either have two scum netted, or Toad is confirmed as a townie. So, in light of having scummy people to lynch into, I think the benefits of leaving Toad alive for one night outweigh any risks. | ||
Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
After the last few posts by strongandbig, and Sinensis' complete lack of addressing anything relevant in the game, I think I'm leaning more towards lynching Sinensis than strongandbig right now, if I'm elected mayor. There's been a lot of discussion in the thread, as well as several posts made against Sinensis, but instead of addressing them, he continues his "lynch grush" posting. The two frontrunners for the election right now, are myself and ET, and neither of us has expressed much interest in lynching grush. Instead, we have both presented alternate targets for the lynch. However, Sinensis does not address any of these targets. If neither of the candidates for mayor are going to lynch grush, then why wouldn't he talk about any other targets, or even anything else that's been happening in the thread at all? Sinensis is exhibiting exactly the kind of behaviour that I find scummy, focusing solely on grush at the expense of everything else that's happening. It gives him an excuse to not contribute to the game, and to not have to post about anything else. If elected mayor, I'm planning on lynching Sinensis. Also, I need to vote, so: ##Vote: EchelonTee | ||
Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On May 29 2012 07:20 VisceraEyes wrote: Wiggles what do you think of Mattchew? I really dislike its length. I don't think his filter's very good. He looks like he's just posting enough to stay with the flow of the game, but that's it. If he doesn't step up his play on Day 2, it could be that he's lurking scum. I'm not sure if you're implying he should be lynched today or not, but I wouldn't feel comfortable lynching him yet. He's been pretty inactive, so that makes it much more of a coin-flip on Day 1 than lynching someone who actually has posted enough to get a decent read on. On May 29 2012 07:26 jaj22 wrote: @Wiggles: You're allowed to vote for yourself. Greymist confirmed earlier. I'd also like to register my disapproval of Mattchew's play, or lack of it. I don't think a lurker lynch is a bad choice here, partly because I have no idea what Sinensis is thinking. According to the day post there's 35 minutes left. I know I'm allowed to vote for myself, but I'd rather vote for ET as a sign of good faith, and to actually have something to tangibly hold me to my support of him in office. Also, while I believe ET is town, I wouldn't complain if I ended up as pardoner, because I can only be 100% sure about my own alignment. | ||
Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On May 29 2012 08:53 Forumite wrote: Oh well Wiggles, if you got another lynch right now, who would you kill? Maybe kitaman, I'm not sure exactly. I thought sinensis was pretty scummy, so he was my choice. I wanted to lynch into the people who ran for mayor, since I thought it was likely that there would be a scum there. strongandbig would be my other choice from that pool, but he's looking better to me now than before, so I don't think I'd be ready to lynch him right now. We just have to make sure that we get scum on Day 2. Hopefully Greymist finds replacements too, so we don't have to deal with a bunch of modkills. | ||
Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On May 30 2012 00:04 supersoft wrote: hey i really appreciate your effort, but why are you guys always trying so hard. Finding scum is a lot easier than you might think. Don't think around 3 corners. Try to catch the little things. Like that Zealos defends toad at a point when it was really useless to defend him. Neither was he in danger of getting lynched, nor is reducing the pressure that is currently put on a player helping the town. A reasonable explanation for his behaviour is that he's scum, he knows Toad is not. He wanted to get a little towncred. Or not even this, he just wanted to say something. Maybe Toad is even scum, too... See? There are plenty of reasonable explanations for his behaviour if he's scum and almost none if he's town. It's not a super strong case, but it is a case. Every other case so far except my toadcase (who is currently on ice until he's confirmed mason) was uncovered and not well thought out. Especially our lynch yesterday. That case was terrible. There was really nothing about it. I could write a lot about why this player was a bad lynch. From an overall gamepolicy point of view because we got no information - maybe some about wiggles - and an individual point of view, because he obviously was town. Here you say that the case was terrible and sinensis was obviously town. As well, you say that it was a bad lynch. However, when it was actually Day 1, you said no such things. It's only now, after sinensis has flipped that you're coming in here making posts about how he was very obviously town and that the lynch was terrible. The closest (and only!) post to that from before the flip is this: On May 29 2012 08:25 supersoft wrote: aww yeah i filtered this sinensis real quick. Completely useless fellow, hang him if you want. Reducing disturbing noise is better than nothing. I'd prefer reducing mafia kp, but you cannot have it all :-/ In which it is not a very good defense of a player who is "obviously" town. It's not going to do anything to change someone's mind. As well, this came after I said that if elected I would lynch sinensis, so there's no excuse like what you said in this post: + Show Spoiler + On May 29 2012 21:35 supersoft wrote: please dont protect wiggles. i'd rather vig him than protect him. he's been completely useless so far as toad pointed out correctly. you also should read my filter more often! all of you. dropped some truth already. + i want to apologize to wiggles first victim: i realized too late, that you were actually going to die. next time i'll yell much more at them. how retarded was that lynch... i think wiggles needs to die for not listening to the town at the end. i dont buy it that he wasnt around at deadline since he was the one who got elected. i think if zealos is scum, wiggles looks really bad and should die. i doubt that he'll be able to erase the doubts then. 70% chance he's scum if zealos is. Of not realizing I was actually going to kill him. I made that very clear in my post, where I stated, "If elected mayor, I'm planning on lynching Sinensis". I don't think it gets any clearer than that. So, you did nothing to try to convince anyone that sinensis was town, which wasn't obvious, considering I had the support of 11 people in lynching him, and you did nothing to convince me to change the lynch. However, after the lynch you're now up in arms about my lynch choice and how I've acted. So, you're either being silly, or you're trying to shovel suspicion on me because I mislynched and just became a lot easier of a target to do so on. Here's a question for you. If you believed so strongly in these things, why do you only mention them after the flip, and not before when it actually matters and can make a difference? I also disagree with what Toad said, but that comes down to what we thought about lynches, and who was a good lynch. Obviously, we disagreed. | ||
Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On May 30 2012 03:05 Forumite wrote: Damn Wiggles, don´t you think you are overreacting? Pulling "11 people voted for me, so there!" to shut him up? Silly on purpose or scum, OMGUS much? Anyway, what I want to know is where you were at the deadline. How am I over-reacting? Supersoft is saying that he wants a vig to hit me, so obviously if he thinks that strongly about me, I'm going to reply. I'm not trying to shut him up either, but implying that I had no support for my lynch, or that general consensus was that sinensis was town, are factually wrong, unless people voted for me even though they disagreed with my lynch target. Also, supersoft's behaviour is pretty suspect to me right now. I posted why. For someone who didn't explicitly object to lynching sinensis, he sure has come on strongly after the flip to throw a lot of suspicion on me and claim that sinensis was a terrible lynch and obviously town. If supersoft actually posted before the lynch that he strongly believed sinensis to be town, or that he was a terrible lynch, maybe I could understand it. But in the hours leading up to the lynch, he did no such thing, even though he was around after I said who I was going to lynch and could see what was happening. It's pretty typical mafia behaviour to not do anything to object to a lynch, and then come in after the lynch claiming it was terrible and he knew the person was town all along to throw suspicion onto the people who supported it. So, I see him as scummy, or maybe he could just be a townie being very silly. I was around at the deadline, why do you think I wasn't? | ||
Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On May 30 2012 03:43 Forumite wrote: I don´t want a vig to shoot you, but supersoft is also one of my stronger townreads in this game, so please give him some slack. The reason I wonder where you were is because SS and I tried to build a case on Zealos near the deadline, so that you´d lynch him instead of Sinensis. I asked you specifically who you were lynching, before I found out myself from your filter, and I didn´t hear an answer, so I assumed you were elsewhere. Why didn´t you consider our case? I didn't answer because you found the answer yourself. I did consider your case as well, but I didn't want to just switch my lynch target a half-hour from the lynch without any discussion with town. I felt that sinensis had a good chance of flipping scum, and I said that I was going to lynch him, so I stuck with what I told people I was going to do, instead of frantically rushing around the deadline to figure stuff out and causing a lot of chaos. On May 30 2012 05:28 Toadesstern wrote: well it kinda does. People tend to agree I'm either lyncher or town and lyncher has no shot. Just claim on the deadline. Lyncher has no KP, so if scum randomly switch to your target, it's a null-tell. | ||
Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On May 30 2012 06:11 Forumite wrote: Hmmm, I wanted us to lynch Zealos but you are right, there wasn´t enough support at the time. Perhaps if I had gotten back an hour earlier. What do you think about Zealos now? I don't think he's looking that good right now. I went back and re-read your case, and tend to agree. Even his last post + Show Spoiler [Post] + On May 30 2012 05:48 Zealos wrote: I struggle to see why people think me defending Toad is scummy lol. I am a townie, because of this, I am posting under the assumption that everyone knows I'm town. Hence why, if I defend someone, its because I think they deserve to be defended. If I post accusations, it will be because I think they are scummy. I'm sorry I haven't posted a great deal yet, like I said, my exam is tomorrow, and so I'll be able to post more then. Zealos, why did you think Toad deserved to be defended? | ||
Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
Are the targets of medic protects notified if the medic blocks a shot? Waiting to see if MZ confirms what Toad's saying. | ||
Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On May 30 2012 14:13 Mattchew wrote: and yours does? + Show Spoiler [WBG Filter Pre-night] + On May 30 2012 04:40 wherebugsgo wrote: Catching up right now. If anyone needs anything specific let me know, but it'll be a couple hours at the least before I can respond. On May 30 2012 06:26 wherebugsgo wrote: why I love supersoft my thoughts exactly whenever I read his posts LOL I come across first Toad post = oh god wtf On May 30 2012 06:34 wherebugsgo wrote: Is there a particular reason Gambitx32 wasn't warned or replaced for not voting? I ctrl-f'd his name in greymist's filter and didn't find anything there either. I have a scumread on him based on his only two posts in the thread. Both of his posts are massive walls of summarizing nothing. He also asks On May 30 2012 06:35 wherebugsgo wrote: oh wtf it cut off. He asks a bunch of people to state who they're going to vote and stuff but he doesn't vote himself. Why has no one questioned you about your claimed hit? He knew I was not hit by mafia, so he wanted to out the vig that shot me because thats what scum do when they don't know everything. They try to find it out Matt, I think you're grasping a bit here, and I disagree. Strongandbig wasn't asking for the vig to claim, he was just asking the thread if they thought you made sense as a vig shot. Frankly, you'd be a confusing mafia shot, since you hadn't done much in the thread, and people were suspicious of you. WBG on the other hand, may have been shot for bringing up a lurker who was scum (gambit), or he could have been shot on reputation alone to kill a vet when he'd be more unlikely to have protection or make an impact on the game. So, it makes sense to me for strongandbig to question your hit, since it didn't make much sense for scum to hit you. It made more sense for a vig to hit you. I don't think you can use that post as a point against him. Right now I'm trying to determine who I think is scummiest/want to lynch from kitaman/supersoft/zealos/gambit. | ||
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